C/D Lightning Lap Data

jdrxb9

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This is a bit dated, but I was thinking about how the Z might do on this next(?) year - https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/
See below for what I think are some relevant cars/times with ballpark prices.
While we'd obviously like to see the new Z right there with the Supra 3.0, and tire tech has come a long way since C/D tested a Z, that is a BIG gap from where the 370 is now.
I think as long as it can get ahead of the FWD'ers I'll be OK with it :)
YearMake & ModelTimePrice
min:secnewused (as of May '21)
2014​
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray (C7 Z51)2:53.8NA$40,000
2018​
Ford Mustang GT PP22:53.8NA$38,000
2010​
Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport (C6)2:58.8NA$32,500
2021​
Toyota Supra 3.02:59.3$53,000$48,500
2019​
BMW M2 Competition2:59.7$55,000
2020​
Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium3:01.4NA$48,000
2016​
BMW M23:01.9NA$40,000
2016​
Ford Focus RS3:03.9NA$30,000
2018​
Honda Civic Type R3:03.9$38,000$32,000
2020​
Ford Mustang 2.3L HiPo3:04.4$39,000
2016​
Mazda MX-5 Miata Cup Car (~215/40 BFG slick)3:06.4
2019​
Hyundai Veloster N PP3:07.7$32,250$26,000
2021​
Toyota Supra 2.03:09.0$40,000
2009​
Nissan 370Z NISMO3:12.0NA
2006​
Nissan 350Z Track3:12.5NA
2018​
Subaru BRZ tS3:14.0
2019​
Mazda MX-5 Miata RF Club3:17.2
 

DevonK

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My guess is it will come in around the CTR's time.

I have used dynos from the new engine (now in the Q60 Red Sport) to create a 370 with the new torque and power profile in Assetto Corsa and will run some AI laps at 100% ability on VIR for both engines to see what difference the power and torque changes make and report back. (I also added a 9 speed auto to another variant which should give the fastest time.)

I think in terms of suspension changes alone coming in the new Z and their impact on lap times that the improvements to be made will bring the standard car at least up to the level of the current Nismo, probably higher. Tires should be up at the current Nismo level as well.
 
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DevonK

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FWIW (which is isn't much) the Z with the Q60's VR30DDTT and a 9 sp auto was 6.1 seconds quicker around VIR than the current Nismo Z when going flat out (qualifying) with 100% AI ability and with semi-slicks on all cars. So if you subtract that 6 seconds from the Nismo's lap time above that would put a hypothetical 400Z on pace with the Miata Cup car. Not too impressive.

In Assetto Corsa the lap time of the current Nismo Z was about 6 seconds faster than the Nismo in the LL, much of that no doubt due to it not running street tires but semi-slicks; plus the 100% AI "racers" are probably a bit faster than the C&D journalists.
 

jdrxb9

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Well, if the engine alone is worth 6 sec., I'm still pretty hopeful.
The '09 was tested on Yok Advan Sports (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15387935/lightning-lap-2009/ - also note in here the Mustang arrived on the wrong tires and subsequently cut 5 seconds with the correct ones), a tire which was effectively replaced by the Advan Sport v105 shortly thereafter. The v105 is/was on par with the PSS (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=174), but the PSS has been surpassed again by the PS4. (I can't find a quick head-to-head quickly, but here are two tests both vs the P Zero: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=218, https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=223)
So hopefully Nissan will fit a tire 2 generations better than the last one tested and will hopefully use some of that big maw for brake cooling :). IF it gets both of those, some general chassis improvement, and a real LSD, the new Z could end up on par with the CTR, or even better.
 
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DevonK

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Getting a real LSD sounds very doubtful based on what I have read, the 400Z is in truth a major refresh with a new engine and skin rather than a new platform/chassis or even suspension, so the viscous LSD is likely to remain. As will the CSC on the MT. Hope I am wrong on both counts.
 

jdrxb9

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I haven't been following the history all that closely, but I haven't seen anything to really rule out a good LSD.
This post (#81) says development was "a few hundred million" and you can get a Quaife or Wavetrac to fit in the current housing - hopefully some of that millions went to a serious re-tuning of the springs/dampers/diff, which could be significant even if the geometry/hardware looks the same as current. I do agree it seems we're unlikely to see an all-new GM-style eLSD considering the Q50/60 are still on open diffs even in RS 400 trim.

Edit: Also, Nissan will get roasted in the motoring press if they bring the vLSD again, especially after the press harped on it for the past 10+ years and the (presumably significantly cheaper) Miata (club) and BRZ/86 (all!) both have Torsens.
 
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Houston.Z35

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I haven't been following the history all that closely, but I haven't seen anything to really rule out a good LSD.
This post (#81) says development was "a few hundred million" and you can get a Quaife or Wavetrac to fit in the current housing - hopefully some of that millions went to a serious re-tuning of the springs/dampers/diff, which could be significant even if the geometry/hardware looks the same as current. I do agree it seems we're unlikely to see an all-new GM-style eLSD considering the Q50/60 are still on open diffs even in RS 400 trim.

Edit: Also, Nissan will get roasted in the motoring press if they bring the vLSD again, especially after the press harped on it for the past 10+ years and the (presumably significantly cheaper) Miata (club) and BRZ/86 (all!) both have Torsens.
There's a ton of carryover from the Z34, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same vLSD.

As for lap times....picture a 370Z Nismo w/ 400hp x 350tq, the Supra 3.0 is 382hp x 368tq....that's +18hp to the Z but +18tq to the Supra.....they would come out about even I'd think.

410hp x 475tq is possible stock on a VR30 tune only and still quite safe, I'm hoping Nissan tweaks the VR30s tune on the Z35 but I highly doubt it.
 
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