Some perspective on the Z Launch!

[takemorepills]

I have no idea about the Ariya (the name still bothers me) enough to agree or disagree with you on that. The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle on that, and honestly, it completely slipped my mind when thinking on this. It's possible. They're also launching the QX60 in the middle of all this. I guarantee you the pencil pushers at Nissan would prioritize those two vehicles over a Z should some sort of launch/production conflict had appeared.

Either way, the cars in question are all still new vehicle launches. You can split hairs in any of those as to being revolutionary or evolutionary - the ones you mentioned being better launches are all volume cars in a way that's different from the C8/Bronco/Z. However, your point stands there. They didn't fire off until they were ready to fire off. The Tundra being an exception to this point - the TRD Pro is delayed again per a buddy that's a Toyota employee. They're not opening order books until May. It will have been a full year since production reveal for an employee to even order one.

All Tundra hybrid options, including the TRD which is only hybrid, are delayed because of the hybrid system needing batteries and additional electronics, and the motor using rare earth materials, all of which are extremely difficult to procure, at this time. The same issue that affects Airya, Rivian, Lucid....all new electric/hybrid options competing for scarce resources.

 

[DanPYo]

I believe he invoked his fifth amendment rights on that question.

That's not a good sign for us Z people

 

[West Aussie]

I get what you're saying, but disagree a bit.

I am quite certain that Nissan is intentionally delaying the Z to "save face" for the Airya.

You mentioned Bronco and C8. Those vehicles represent epic changes, that occurred around the time of the pandemic. Neither were evolutionary, they are both revolutionary. The new Z is only mildly evolutionary.

Nissan really jumped the gun on announcing the Z. I think they thought that the Airya was going to be possible, so they announced the Z. It is clear, in the last few years, a BEV is absolutely the worst vehicle to hang your hat on. Supply constraints just keep getting worse. Even if we ignore the supply challenges for BEV, the Airya is similar to the C8 and Bronco because it too is revolutionary. The Z should be on sale already.

I can think of several cars that had better reveals:

New Tundra
New Civic
New TLX S

Those vehicles were released to consumers months after official reveal.
In 2021 Nissan revealed our new Z will be a 2023. They are definitely in the wrong for announcing it prematurely. And again, I stand firm that it's intentionally being delayed for the Airya's sake.

I agree, a car is a car…doesn’t matter if it’s a sports or a 4WD unless it’s hand built, they they take the same time to manufacture.
However, I think @RicerX is missing a very important reason as to why people are upset.

Its not so much that the car not being here yet, it’s the lack of information.
No price being the biggest bug bare for me. I’ve had a deposit down since this time last year…and in that time there have been estimates from dealers in Aus from anywhere between 60 to 90k
Books have been open since October, deposits have been taken …yet still no set price. I’m going to be mighty peeved if I’ve waited a year only to find out I can’t afford ( or think it’s not worth the asking price) the thing.

And secondly a date ….last week a number of us were told July first deliveries will be coming, but then other dealers are saying October, and some are saying two different times for Proto and Performance …..if it’s July surely they could let those of us who have orders in the system know officially by now, it’s only 3 and a half months away

Finally what’s in the car? Well we have a good idea, but Nissan says the specs we were given could still change. Well not now they couldn’t because if they are coming in July manufacturing would have started, so release a set list of specs.

In Short, this is the real issue…no information, conflicting information. And not from us, but from Nissan Dealerships from around the country, who supposedly get all their information from the same place…Nissan Aus

This forum has been great for us to see who’s being told what, and none of its consistent

 

[jezzza]

I am quite certain that Nissan is intentionally delaying the Z to "save face" for the Airya.

You seem fixated on this, Dan Passe has confirmed that this is definitely not the case.

 

[digitaltrance]

There is talk of a major financial collapse, tie that in with supply chain and sky high inflation, fuel prices. IMO Nissan will slow play this release.

 

[takemorepills]

You seem fixated on this, Dan Passe has confirmed that this is definitely not the case.

Admittedly, I'm just being whiny, I'll hopefully be proven wrong.

 

[trackratZ]

Its not so much that the car not being here yet, it’s the lack of information.

In summary, this! Something is going on at Nissan (build issues, govt regs?). We are close enough to summer launch if that ever happens, but nothing...... Ugh, why I gave up for now.

 

[Jdawg_89]

Did he say ahything about how badly he got bent over by ADM?

If he ordered at some of the larger Chevy/Corvette dealerships, he may have gotten his at MSRP. There are several Chevy dealers that have historically honored sales of new flagship vehicles at MSRP.

 

[Blackbeard]

If he ordered at some of the larger Chevy/Corvette dealerships, he may have gotten his at MSRP. There are several Chevy dealers that have historically honored sales of new flagship vehicles at MSRP.

this is true we have lorenzo bomnin down here one of the biggest vette dealers and they have a few at msrp.

 

[Blackbeard]

You seem fixated on this, Dan Passe has confirmed that this is definitely not the case.

even if he did say that he is a suit for nissan you think he would really tell you the truth

 

[Donalex]

even if he did say that he is a suit for nissan you think he would really tell you the truth

It's difficult to call someone a liar when you don't know the absolute truth.

Ima thinking you don't...

 

[Dotson]

Hey yo.

So I know everyone is getting mad/sad/frustrated/confused about the launch of the Z. I read it all over the place on posts here. I thought I might share some perspective on a couple things that might help us in our commiserate journey through these trying times of unprecedented first world problems.

In the pandemic years, there has been only one other significant mass market sports car launch - the C8 Chevy Corvette. (Am I wrong? Probably. But to me, the Z's launch is on par with the Vette, and there hasn't been anything that has stood out to me). A fella at work showed up with a 2022 3LT with Z51 performance package a couple of weeks ago, so I asked him about it. How did he get it? Who did he have to kill? What bank did he rob? Who does he know at Chevrolet? Did Joe Biden drive it in Bowling Green before it got delivered? Does Joe Biden remember driving it? I had SO MANY QUESTIONS!

This guy ordered his C8 Corvette in September 2020. Hang on, emphasis. SEPTEMBER 2020. These cars were in production starting in January 2020. Launched the previous fall. His order for a 2021 turned into a 2022 model year car before he received a car. He BOUGHT A TESLA MODEL 3 as a bridge car that he then traded toward the Corvette when his order finally came in February 2022.

Another colleague of mine at work ordered a Bronco 10 months ago. Significantly better track record than Corvette guy. She finally got her VIN number a week ago and it should be delivered at the end of March or early April.

Point being - it's not just Nissan. It doesn't make it any less frustrating, but it's not just the Z. It's not just Nissan. It's not just sports cars. It's launching a new car that absolutely SUCKS right now. Too much crazy in the world and now WW3 is about to break out, so there's that.

Nissan still has a ways to go - we don't know how quickly they'll be able to meet production demand, but if it's as bad as the C8 I wouldn't be terribly shocked. I promise you Nissan wants to sell a Z to everyone in here. I truly believe they're doing the best they can in the environment they have to work. I also get it if you can't wait any longer and have a window within which to purchase a fun car. But some will be able to wait however long it takes. For me, this fun car purchase is the last one I'm going to be able to swing for around 20 years, so I need to make it count. Therefore, no compromises on anything. If I need to wait a year to get color/equipment, then I will wait. I will wait two years if that's what it takes. I've already been waiting since 2015 - I'm on the home stretch, baby!

TLDR; the wait sucks, but it could be a whole lot worse, and still might be, and it's not Nissan's fault.

I enjoyed reading your analysis, but there's one big glaring flaw. The other cars you mentioned, C8 and Bronco, were being brought to production at the beginning and a year into the pandemic, respectively. Both vehicles were announced before and early on and had a very high interest that didn't wane and probably increased during the pandemic.
The pandemic completely blindsided Chevrolet and the rest of the world, so how can anybody fault them for not delivering the C8 on time. The repercussions to manufacturing and supply chain came about a year later, thus catching Ford and everyone else in the car industry off-guard. Who can fault Ford for not being prepared for it?

Fast forward to Nissan and the Z. They honestly have little excuse for any significant delays in my mind. The implications of pandemic and supply chain issues have been well understood and recognized for at least a year now. Therefore any competent car manufacturer should factor this into their launch. They shouldn't commit to delivering in these uncertain times if they were not very confident of it.

 

[Blackbeard]

It's difficult to call someone a liar when you don't know the absolute truth.

Ima thinking you don't...

Think what u want but reality is u nor I, don’t really know

 

[Donalex]

Well, that's my point. No one knows what's going on except the Nissan "suits".

Conjecture or an attempt at misinformation does no good for anyone, anything, nor any situation.

 

[RicerX]

I enjoyed reading your analysis, but there's one big glaring flaw. The other cars you mentioned, C8 and Bronco, were being brought to production at the beginning and a year into the pandemic, respectively. Both vehicles were announced before and early on and had a very high interest that didn't wane and probably increased during the pandemic.
The pandemic completely blindsided Chevrolet and the rest of the world, so how can anybody fault them for not delivering the C8 on time. The repercussions to manufacturing and supply chain came about a year later, thus catching Ford and everyone else in the car industry off-guard. Who can fault Ford for not being prepared for it?

Fast forward to Nissan and the Z. They honestly have little excuse for any significant delays in my mind. The implications of pandemic and supply chain issues have been well understood and recognized for at least a year now. Therefore any competent car manufacturer should factor this into their launch. They shouldn't commit to delivering in these uncertain times if they were not very confident of it.

I believe I mentioned that in my original post. The US makers were blindsided, incurred delays, likely exhausted any reserves/contingencies to make everything happen. Nissan is launching this car in the constrained environment the US automakers only partially dealt with for their launches (their cars were designed and preproduction models were already built). The Z Proto came later.

Is it any easier to procure semiconductors today? No. Is it any easier today to procure steel and other raw materials? No. Is everything more expensive? Yes, and not slowing down anytime soon. Are there still global labor shortages? Yes. Are there still labor restrictions heavily in place in Japan, China, Taiwan, and other Asian manufacturing epicenters? Yes. Unlike the Bronco and C8, the Z is built 100% in Tochigi.

The American automakers were farther ahead with those products when the pandemic hit.

My final point is this - everyone wants more specifics like price, etc. If we had that already, we'd just be in the next gripe of "We know how much it is so WHY CANT I BUY ONE?!" It's not like any of us would actually be content with "more information" in all reality.

Finally, the Z isn't late (or even delayed) by anything Nissan or Dan Passe has said so far. The first official day of Spring in North America is tomorrow, 20 March. Spring officially ends Tuesday, 21 June. (AUS spring is September to November). After they debuted the production model, they said Spring 2022. There's your window. And when it comes out, there's going to be a price on it.